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	<title>Comments on: Manufactured dissent and fake authenticity</title>
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	<link>http://www.makingchutney.com/2007/12/22/manufactured-dissent-and-fake-authenticity/</link>
	<description>One part facial hair.  Two parts moxy.</description>
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		<title>By: Scott Wells</title>
		<link>http://www.makingchutney.com/2007/12/22/manufactured-dissent-and-fake-authenticity/comment-page-1/#comment-14673</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Wells</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 14:59:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.makingchutney.com/2007/12/22/manufactured-dissent-and-fake-authenticity/#comment-14673</guid>
		<description>Steve, do you have any information about those revivals? The Universalists I&#039;ve studied uniformly hated revivalism. So much so that the one Universalist minister I found that &lt;em&gt;did&lt;/em&gt; hold them got the hairy eye-ball from his colleagues, as reported in denominational papers.

On the other hand, through the nineteenth century, and lasting in Texas to the Depression, Universalists couldn&#039;t say no to an extended doctrinal debate -- Presbyterians and Methodists were favorite opponents -- often lasting several days.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve, do you have any information about those revivals? The Universalists I&#8217;ve studied uniformly hated revivalism. So much so that the one Universalist minister I found that <em>did</em> hold them got the hairy eye-ball from his colleagues, as reported in denominational papers.</p>
<p>On the other hand, through the nineteenth century, and lasting in Texas to the Depression, Universalists couldn&#8217;t say no to an extended doctrinal debate &#8212; Presbyterians and Methodists were favorite opponents &#8212; often lasting several days.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Caldwell</title>
		<link>http://www.makingchutney.com/2007/12/22/manufactured-dissent-and-fake-authenticity/comment-page-1/#comment-14667</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Caldwell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 04:46:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.makingchutney.com/2007/12/22/manufactured-dissent-and-fake-authenticity/#comment-14667</guid>
		<description>Actually, Universalists in my district were doing tent revival meetings 100 years ago.

Perhaps this style of worship is a part of our shared heritage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, Universalists in my district were doing tent revival meetings 100 years ago.</p>
<p>Perhaps this style of worship is a part of our shared heritage.</p>
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		<title>By: chutney</title>
		<link>http://www.makingchutney.com/2007/12/22/manufactured-dissent-and-fake-authenticity/comment-page-1/#comment-14663</link>
		<dc:creator>chutney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jan 2008 21:03:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.makingchutney.com/2007/12/22/manufactured-dissent-and-fake-authenticity/#comment-14663</guid>
		<description>We didn&#039;t come from that wing of Protestantism.  It&#039;s probably fair to say we even rejected it outright.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We didn&#8217;t come from that wing of Protestantism.  It&#8217;s probably fair to say we even rejected it outright.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Caldwell</title>
		<link>http://www.makingchutney.com/2007/12/22/manufactured-dissent-and-fake-authenticity/comment-page-1/#comment-14659</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Caldwell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Dec 2007 23:49:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.makingchutney.com/2007/12/22/manufactured-dissent-and-fake-authenticity/#comment-14659</guid>
		<description>Regarding Peacebang&#039;s comments on her district&#039;s &quot;revival&quot; conference, the congregation I belonged to when we lived in Prairie Star District did a Humanist revival worship service as a workshop.

The sermon title was &quot;Believe and Be Damned&quot; -- the central point of sermon was that uncritical belief in anything leads to danger.  The lay leader in our small South Dakota congregation was the daughter of a Congregationalist minister and she had re-written lyrics for the revival camp meeting songs of her childhood.

Given my UU background and experience with a non-Christian revival worship service, I would say that this was not a &quot;totally inauthentic coopting of Christian language&quot; for two reasons.

(1) Unitarian Universalism arose out of Protestant Christianity and has historical roots within it.  Since this history is a shared heritage for Christian and non-Christian UUs, it&#039;s not an inauthentic cultural misappropriation issue.

(2) With Christianity&#039;s past historical association with colonialism and imperialism, I don&#039;t think that borrowing of Christian forms by a group that has roots within the tradition doesn&#039;t carry the &quot;cultural imperialism baggage&quot; that it does when one borrows from Islam, Buddhism, etc.

I&#039;ll have to dig up a copy of the re-written lyrics for &quot;Standing on the Promises,&quot; &quot;I Saw the Light,&quot; and other songs that we used for the worship for posting on my blog.

Just my $0.02 worth here ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding Peacebang&#8217;s comments on her district&#8217;s &#8220;revival&#8221; conference, the congregation I belonged to when we lived in Prairie Star District did a Humanist revival worship service as a workshop.</p>
<p>The sermon title was &#8220;Believe and Be Damned&#8221; &#8212; the central point of sermon was that uncritical belief in anything leads to danger.  The lay leader in our small South Dakota congregation was the daughter of a Congregationalist minister and she had re-written lyrics for the revival camp meeting songs of her childhood.</p>
<p>Given my UU background and experience with a non-Christian revival worship service, I would say that this was not a &#8220;totally inauthentic coopting of Christian language&#8221; for two reasons.</p>
<p>(1) Unitarian Universalism arose out of Protestant Christianity and has historical roots within it.  Since this history is a shared heritage for Christian and non-Christian UUs, it&#8217;s not an inauthentic cultural misappropriation issue.</p>
<p>(2) With Christianity&#8217;s past historical association with colonialism and imperialism, I don&#8217;t think that borrowing of Christian forms by a group that has roots within the tradition doesn&#8217;t carry the &#8220;cultural imperialism baggage&#8221; that it does when one borrows from Islam, Buddhism, etc.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll have to dig up a copy of the re-written lyrics for &#8220;Standing on the Promises,&#8221; &#8220;I Saw the Light,&#8221; and other songs that we used for the worship for posting on my blog.</p>
<p>Just my $0.02 worth here &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: PeaceBang</title>
		<link>http://www.makingchutney.com/2007/12/22/manufactured-dissent-and-fake-authenticity/comment-page-1/#comment-14654</link>
		<dc:creator>PeaceBang</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Dec 2007 15:18:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.makingchutney.com/2007/12/22/manufactured-dissent-and-fake-authenticity/#comment-14654</guid>
		<description>Given that our UU district is holding a &quot;revival&quot; conference in 2008, I just appreciate your pointing out that &quot;Revival&quot; without some kind of belief in the holy spirit/God is totally inauthentic coopting of Christian language, and it makes me stabby.  I&#039;m sure that revival will smack of worshiping ourselves, and I dread it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Given that our UU district is holding a &#8220;revival&#8221; conference in 2008, I just appreciate your pointing out that &#8220;Revival&#8221; without some kind of belief in the holy spirit/God is totally inauthentic coopting of Christian language, and it makes me stabby.  I&#8217;m sure that revival will smack of worshiping ourselves, and I dread it.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Baar</title>
		<link>http://www.makingchutney.com/2007/12/22/manufactured-dissent-and-fake-authenticity/comment-page-1/#comment-14651</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Baar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Dec 2007 13:16:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.makingchutney.com/2007/12/22/manufactured-dissent-and-fake-authenticity/#comment-14651</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Protest has to be effective, or at least stand a realistic chance to be effective, for it to count as dissent to me.&lt;/em&gt;

That&#039;s a heck of a criteria...  some of the most noble dissent is for a lost cause.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Protest has to be effective, or at least stand a realistic chance to be effective, for it to count as dissent to me.</em></p>
<p>That&#8217;s a heck of a criteria&#8230;  some of the most noble dissent is for a lost cause.</p>
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		<title>By: chutney</title>
		<link>http://www.makingchutney.com/2007/12/22/manufactured-dissent-and-fake-authenticity/comment-page-1/#comment-14646</link>
		<dc:creator>chutney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Dec 2007 21:20:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.makingchutney.com/2007/12/22/manufactured-dissent-and-fake-authenticity/#comment-14646</guid>
		<description>Protest has to be effective, or at least stand a realistic chance to be effective, for it to count as dissent to me.  And &quot;anything is possible&quot; doesn&#039;t count as a realistic chance.  True dissenters flirt with danger, and their actions provoke a change of heart in the powers-that-be.  True dissent is creative and innovative.  Picket signs, giant puppets, and &quot;hey-hey ho-ho&quot; haven&#039;t been creative or innovative for decades.

What makes a dissent manufactured is, one, when it is knowingly feckless and, two, when it becomes a hobby.  (I mean &quot;manufactured dissent&quot; in the sense of &quot;faux dissent.&quot;)  It may be important to the protesters, but why does their hobby deserve everyone&#039;s attention?  Why should fellow liberals be negatively judged for ignoring protests that are obviously going to fail?   Why do I owe them any more respect than I owe &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.makingchutney.com/2007/10/20/dont-be-a-misfit-be-saved/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this&lt;/a&gt;?

My hobbies are important to me.  I think my blogging, to pick one hobby, sometimes has a prophetic edge to it, and I do it because I hope it might lead to change.  (It&#039;s been changing-making for me personally.)  But you don&#039;t have to think blogging is as important as I do to be a responsible person.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Protest has to be effective, or at least stand a realistic chance to be effective, for it to count as dissent to me.  And &#8220;anything is possible&#8221; doesn&#8217;t count as a realistic chance.  True dissenters flirt with danger, and their actions provoke a change of heart in the powers-that-be.  True dissent is creative and innovative.  Picket signs, giant puppets, and &#8220;hey-hey ho-ho&#8221; haven&#8217;t been creative or innovative for decades.</p>
<p>What makes a dissent manufactured is, one, when it is knowingly feckless and, two, when it becomes a hobby.  (I mean &#8220;manufactured dissent&#8221; in the sense of &#8220;faux dissent.&#8221;)  It may be important to the protesters, but why does their hobby deserve everyone&#8217;s attention?  Why should fellow liberals be negatively judged for ignoring protests that are obviously going to fail?   Why do I owe them any more respect than I owe <a href="http://www.makingchutney.com/2007/10/20/dont-be-a-misfit-be-saved/" rel="nofollow">this</a>?</p>
<p>My hobbies are important to me.  I think my blogging, to pick one hobby, sometimes has a prophetic edge to it, and I do it because I hope it might lead to change.  (It&#8217;s been changing-making for me personally.)  But you don&#8217;t have to think blogging is as important as I do to be a responsible person.</p>
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		<title>By: Christine Robinson</title>
		<link>http://www.makingchutney.com/2007/12/22/manufactured-dissent-and-fake-authenticity/comment-page-1/#comment-14645</link>
		<dc:creator>Christine Robinson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Dec 2007 20:45:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.makingchutney.com/2007/12/22/manufactured-dissent-and-fake-authenticity/#comment-14645</guid>
		<description>Protests don&#039;t matter until they do matter. They start to matter when they become a movement.  Starting a protest in hopes that it will become a movement is to protest in vain.  You have to start a movement (or join a movement) and then protest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Protests don&#8217;t matter until they do matter. They start to matter when they become a movement.  Starting a protest in hopes that it will become a movement is to protest in vain.  You have to start a movement (or join a movement) and then protest.</p>
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		<title>By: h sofia</title>
		<link>http://www.makingchutney.com/2007/12/22/manufactured-dissent-and-fake-authenticity/comment-page-1/#comment-14643</link>
		<dc:creator>h sofia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Dec 2007 18:08:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.makingchutney.com/2007/12/22/manufactured-dissent-and-fake-authenticity/#comment-14643</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t disagree with you in principal, but it&#039;s interesting to me when people say protests don&#039;t matter. To them, maybe. But to say they don&#039;t matter at all. Who is to say that? And haven&#039;t people always said that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t disagree with you in principal, but it&#8217;s interesting to me when people say protests don&#8217;t matter. To them, maybe. But to say they don&#8217;t matter at all. Who is to say that? And haven&#8217;t people always said that?</p>
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		<title>By: Boy in the Bands &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The alternative to getting all worked up</title>
		<link>http://www.makingchutney.com/2007/12/22/manufactured-dissent-and-fake-authenticity/comment-page-1/#comment-14642</link>
		<dc:creator>Boy in the Bands &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The alternative to getting all worked up</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Dec 2007 17:03:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.makingchutney.com/2007/12/22/manufactured-dissent-and-fake-authenticity/#comment-14642</guid>
		<description>[...] If you&#8217;ve not read Dan Harper&#8217;s blog or Chutney&#8217;s blog lately, you really ought to see (respectively) &#8220;Problem solved, or denominational politics&#8221; and &#8220;Manufactured dissent and fake authenticity.&#8221; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] If you&#8217;ve not read Dan Harper&#8217;s blog or Chutney&#8217;s blog lately, you really ought to see (respectively) &#8220;Problem solved, or denominational politics&#8221; and &#8220;Manufactured dissent and fake authenticity.&#8221; [...]</p>
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