Comments on: Should ministers air dirty denominational laundry on their blogs?

By: mskitty1

mskitty1 — Thu, 20 Dec 2007 15:39:11 +0000

Actually, Bill, the ministers’ guidelines suggest such an intervention when a colleague’s behavior is clearly out of bounds.

By: Bill Baar

Bill Baar — Sun, 16 Dec 2007 23:49:55 +0000

You sound like the grand inquisitor too me.

No friend….

By: ogre

ogre — Sun, 16 Dec 2007 18:37:54 +0000

I’d been to the one I referred to a few times, yes. But I’m not just basing it on my own experience. I’ve some insight from other members (both sides of their divide) and other ministers in the district, and the D.E.

If we’re a movement, then no church is an island.

What’s so inappropriate about a good friend (neighboring congregation) gently asking what the hell you’re doing — and pointing out how you seem to be destroying your life at the moment?

By: Bill Baar

Bill Baar — Sun, 16 Dec 2007 13:36:49 +0000

I’d say principles and dysfunctionality different things.

They were dysfunctional, and needed to know it and face it and deal with it.

Are you a guest at these Churches? Do you just wander in and do an analysis?

By: Idetrorce

Idetrorce — Sun, 16 Dec 2007 00:36:57 +0000

very interesting, but I don’t agree with you
Idetrorce

By: ogre

ogre — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 23:40:22 +0000

Well, I gave an example–calling and chewing up three ministers. They were dysfunctional, and needed to know it and face it and deal with it. Having people know it, and veer around the issue for years did avoid awkward conversations–and served no one’s good. And in fact, split the congregation.

Or the congregation whose behavior was distinctly unfriendly to anyone who was even modestly open about being a theist (Really? Why would anyone who was be a UU?). That one needed to be talked to.

Just examples.

We’ve got principles. We affirm them and covenant to support them. What the hell does that mean if we’re not even willing to gently nudge each other and observe that we’re not living up to them?

By: Bill Baar

Bill Baar — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 23:20:10 +0000

What would you call out a congregation for then; especially based on a perception?

By: ogre

ogre — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 17:45:01 +0000

Bill, I didn’t suggest calling out a congregation for beliefs. The notion’s absurd given the diversity of the UUA, and the diversity of individual congregations’ membership.

Hell, congregations don’t often make any statement about their “beliefs.” Hysteria would ensure internally.

But ACTIONS are another thing. If a congregation’s abused and eaten a couple ministers, for example…

By: chutney

chutney — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 15:23:10 +0000

I don’t think anyone is talking about calling out a congregation for beliefs.

By: Bill Baar

Bill Baar — Thu, 06 Dec 2007 14:40:13 +0000

Lovingly calling out another congregation for a perceived error/failing.

Perceived errors or failiings? That’s a bit wishy washy… not exactly beyond a reasonable doubt… I’d be careful calling out anyone on a perception of mine or anyone elses… what test could a UU congregation fail? What errors could a congregation preach?

I’ll freely argue beliefs with anyone. And they should feel free to argue same with me.

A congregation calling out another for an error or failing of belief is contrary to what UU is about today.

Calling out a congregation for a specific action I suppose is a different thing. Calling out an individual for an act far more common.

A UU minister told me she doesn’t blog because, as I would put it, there’s what you write, there’s what you think you write, there’s what you read, there’s what you think you read… so she just avoids the pitfalls. Given she is in a profession where she sells her services to congregations, it makes a lot of sense that she is very careful how she packages herself, because the market includes a lot of people willing to call out failures and errors based on perceptions.

Strange for a Liberal Faith….