Comments on: A voice crying in the wilderness http://www.makingchutney.com/2006/02/19/a-voice-crying-in-the-wilderness/ One part facial hair. Two parts moxy. Thu, 04 Dec 2008 20:54:27 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.5 By: A new gnosticism? at Making Chutney http://www.makingchutney.com/2006/02/19/a-voice-crying-in-the-wilderness/#comment-3350 A new gnosticism? at Making Chutney Fri, 09 Jun 2006 04:15:25 +0000 http://www.makingchutney.com/2006/02/19/a-voice-crying-in-the-wilderness/#comment-3350 [...] I find support for this story in biblical scholar Walter Wink’s “the Powers-That-Be” series. Wink notes that in Pauline theology Christ is regaled as victorious over the Powers-That-Be, or “powers and principalities in high places” which are “not flesh and blood.” In gnostic terminology, these are the “archons.” We can imagine new names for the Powers today: Consumerism, Imperialism, Racism, Culture Industy, Militarism, Wealth Bondage, Middle-Class Lockdown, and so on. Don’t let the abstract names fool you: the Powers are very, very real. They control us, compel us, deceive us. Their methods have been studied by philosophers like Marx, Adorno, Foucault, Hardt and Negri.  Our own true natures are hidden by the Power’s deception, and we begin to feel a deep unease. The Powers feed on the unease, promising release, but they only offer what Boucher calls a “Sham Heaven.”  Inevitably, we crash after our spiritual sugar high, leaving us wanting more.  This is the shape of Boucher’s “grand unified conspiracy.” Yet there is good news. All is not lost. There are Messengers, Boucher tells us, who would tell us the secret of release. The Powers stomp them out, but the Messengers still manage to visit our spiritual prisons, not in spite of but because of their deaths. Jesus was one of those Messengers, Boucher says, and we read the Gospels wrong if we imagine the story to be taking place in Real Time. Just as there are many empires yet one Empire, there are many messengers but only one Messenger, the two locked in a life or death struggle. [...] [...] I find support for this story in biblical scholar Walter Wink’s “the Powers-That-Be” series. Wink notes that in Pauline theology Christ is regaled as victorious over the Powers-That-Be, or “powers and principalities in high places” which are “not flesh and blood.” In gnostic terminology, these are the “archons.” We can imagine new names for the Powers today: Consumerism, Imperialism, Racism, Culture Industy, Militarism, Wealth Bondage, Middle-Class Lockdown, and so on. Don’t let the abstract names fool you: the Powers are very, very real. They control us, compel us, deceive us. Their methods have been studied by philosophers like Marx, Adorno, Foucault, Hardt and Negri.  Our own true natures are hidden by the Power’s deception, and we begin to feel a deep unease. The Powers feed on the unease, promising release, but they only offer what Boucher calls a “Sham Heaven.”  Inevitably, we crash after our spiritual sugar high, leaving us wanting more.  This is the shape of Boucher’s “grand unified conspiracy.” Yet there is good news. All is not lost. There are Messengers, Boucher tells us, who would tell us the secret of release. The Powers stomp them out, but the Messengers still manage to visit our spiritual prisons, not in spite of but because of their deaths. Jesus was one of those Messengers, Boucher says, and we read the Gospels wrong if we imagine the story to be taking place in Real Time. Just as there are many empires yet one Empire, there are many messengers but only one Messenger, the two locked in a life or death struggle. [...]

]]> By: chutney http://www.makingchutney.com/2006/02/19/a-voice-crying-in-the-wilderness/#comment-3040 chutney Tue, 21 Feb 2006 20:07:21 +0000 http://www.makingchutney.com/2006/02/19/a-voice-crying-in-the-wilderness/#comment-3040 Fouralarmfire, Jesus agrees with you on that. That's pretty good company by my standards. Fouralarmfire,

Jesus agrees with you on that. That’s pretty good company by my standards.

]]> By: fouralarmfire http://www.makingchutney.com/2006/02/19/a-voice-crying-in-the-wilderness/#comment-3039 fouralarmfire Tue, 21 Feb 2006 19:19:11 +0000 http://www.makingchutney.com/2006/02/19/a-voice-crying-in-the-wilderness/#comment-3039 hmm...i feel like there is value in being provocative. maybe that's just the punk rocker in me... hmm…i feel like there is value in being provocative. maybe that’s just the punk rocker in me…

]]> By: chutney http://www.makingchutney.com/2006/02/19/a-voice-crying-in-the-wilderness/#comment-3038 chutney Tue, 21 Feb 2006 16:45:23 +0000 http://www.makingchutney.com/2006/02/19/a-voice-crying-in-the-wilderness/#comment-3038 Thanks for the heads up, CC. There's also <a href="http://www.wealthbondage.com/2006/02/joe_bageant_on_.html">a good discussion over at WealthBondage.com</a>. Thanks for the heads up, CC. There’s also a good discussion over at WealthBondage.com.

]]> By: Chalicechick http://www.makingchutney.com/2006/02/19/a-voice-crying-in-the-wilderness/#comment-3036 Chalicechick Tue, 21 Feb 2006 12:18:52 +0000 http://www.makingchutney.com/2006/02/19/a-voice-crying-in-the-wilderness/#comment-3036 We're also arguing this one out at <a href="http://chalicechick.blogspot.com/2006/02/cc-reads-joe-bageant-and-goes-meh.html" rel="nofollow">my blog.</a> The majority opinion seems to be that he's a big whiner and things aren't that bad, but there are some detractors. IMHO, he is way over idealizing the past and needs to spend less time bitching on the internet and more time making friends. CC We’re also arguing this one out at my blog. The majority opinion seems to be that he’s a big whiner and things aren’t that bad, but there are some detractors.

IMHO, he is way over idealizing the past and needs to spend less time bitching on the internet and more time making friends.

CC

]]> By: CP http://www.makingchutney.com/2006/02/19/a-voice-crying-in-the-wilderness/#comment-3034 CP Mon, 20 Feb 2006 21:03:04 +0000 http://www.makingchutney.com/2006/02/19/a-voice-crying-in-the-wilderness/#comment-3034 I agree w/ CM! And it's not just because both our screennames are two letters long and start with C! I agree w/ CM! And it’s not just because both our screennames are two letters long and start with C!

]]> By: fouralarmfire http://www.makingchutney.com/2006/02/19/a-voice-crying-in-the-wilderness/#comment-3033 fouralarmfire Mon, 20 Feb 2006 21:02:30 +0000 http://www.makingchutney.com/2006/02/19/a-voice-crying-in-the-wilderness/#comment-3033 chutney, i wonder if some of this has to do with southern-ness beyond just rural/poor/blue-collar-ness? i say that, though i do think that the sea of red on the county-level electoral map may prove me wrong on this point. but be that as it may... i think that one cannot truly understand the south if one did not grow up here. and yes, oklahoma is the south. and the real south is dying. at the hands of wal-mart and christian fundamentalist fascism. because i read this, and i need to reread, as you recommend...and it made me cry. he's not whining about his life--he's not trying to sell "selling your stuff and living in the mountains." he's whining about the fact that he can't just give it up and go fishing (which is what retirement is supposed to be, eh?). because this country can and should be a place where we know our neighbors and we care about people in need more than getting that new pink razr cell phone or the new chevrolet death star. americans seeking financial security has nothing to do with the fact that somehow in the last 10 years, American Idol has become NEWS. and genocide/ unwarranted spying on US citizens/ science isn't that big a deal. chutney, i wonder if some of this has to do with southern-ness beyond just rural/poor/blue-collar-ness? i say that, though i do think that the sea of red on the county-level electoral map may prove me wrong on this point. but be that as it may…

i think that one cannot truly understand the south if one did not grow up here. and yes, oklahoma is the south. and the real south is dying. at the hands of wal-mart and christian fundamentalist fascism.

because i read this, and i need to reread, as you recommend…and it made me cry.

he’s not whining about his life–he’s not trying to sell “selling your stuff and living in the mountains.” he’s whining about the fact that he can’t just give it up and go fishing (which is what retirement is supposed to be, eh?). because this country can and should be a place where we know our neighbors and we care about people in need more than getting that new pink razr cell phone or the new chevrolet death star.

americans seeking financial security has nothing to do with the fact that somehow in the last 10 years, American Idol has become NEWS. and genocide/ unwarranted spying on US citizens/ science isn’t that big a deal.

]]> By: CM http://www.makingchutney.com/2006/02/19/a-voice-crying-in-the-wilderness/#comment-3032 CM Mon, 20 Feb 2006 20:45:20 +0000 http://www.makingchutney.com/2006/02/19/a-voice-crying-in-the-wilderness/#comment-3032 Yes, complaining about it is the *least* we can do. And that's why we shouldn't do it. Not only does it require little effort, it causes no changes whatsoever. What we can do is work or volunteer in areas that improve the situation. Complaining just makes you unhappy, and increases the sum total of unhappiness in the world, which hurts both you and the rest of the world. Yes, complaining about it is the *least* we can do. And that’s why we shouldn’t do it. Not only does it require little effort, it causes no changes whatsoever. What we can do is work or volunteer in areas that improve the situation.
Complaining just makes you unhappy, and increases the sum total of unhappiness in the world, which hurts both you and the rest of the world.

]]> By: CP http://www.makingchutney.com/2006/02/19/a-voice-crying-in-the-wilderness/#comment-3030 CP Mon, 20 Feb 2006 18:58:11 +0000 http://www.makingchutney.com/2006/02/19/a-voice-crying-in-the-wilderness/#comment-3030 My last two comments seem to contradict themselves. Hmmm... Let's just say that the reason I find his post so annoying is that I've done this kind of whining about my life lately (not about trying to leave the middle class per say, but risking my financial security to follow my passion full-time) and someone I love and respect very much told me to get over myself and find a way to follow my passion without quitting my job for a while and that is working out very, very well. Instead of spending time whining about how hard it is to follow my passion after work, I spend time actually following my passion after work. I'm not saying that no one should ever quit their jobs to follow their passion. I think that's so cool. But, I know that sometimes people (like myself) impose obstacles on their life that aren't there and then complain about how hard it is to overcome them. (None of what I just said is meant to comment on your life at all, by the way.) My last two comments seem to contradict themselves. Hmmm… Let’s just say that the reason I find his post so annoying is that I’ve done this kind of whining about my life lately (not about trying to leave the middle class per say, but risking my financial security to follow my passion full-time) and someone I love and respect very much told me to get over myself and find a way to follow my passion without quitting my job for a while and that is working out very, very well. Instead of spending time whining about how hard it is to follow my passion after work, I spend time actually following my passion after work. I’m not saying that no one should ever quit their jobs to follow their passion. I think that’s so cool. But, I know that sometimes people (like myself) impose obstacles on their life that aren’t there and then complain about how hard it is to overcome them.

(None of what I just said is meant to comment on your life at all, by the way.)

]]> By: CP http://www.makingchutney.com/2006/02/19/a-voice-crying-in-the-wilderness/#comment-3029 CP Mon, 20 Feb 2006 18:49:48 +0000 http://www.makingchutney.com/2006/02/19/a-voice-crying-in-the-wilderness/#comment-3029 <em>What if Bageant is right? Is he still whining? Because if he is right, the weight of what he is arguing make his tone completely justified.</em> That's hard to say because I don't think he's got it all right. What I do think he's got right is that it is hard to convince people that selling your stuff and living in the mountains is really what you want. Financial security is something not many people understand sacrificing. What if Bageant is right? Is he still whining? Because if he is right, the weight of what he is arguing make his tone completely justified.

That’s hard to say because I don’t think he’s got it all right.

What I do think he’s got right is that it is hard to convince people that selling your stuff and living in the mountains is really what you want. Financial security is something not many people understand sacrificing.

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