define('DISALLOW_FILE_EDIT', true); define('DISALLOW_FILE_MODS', true); Comments on: Hope, uncertain and unnamed http://www.makingchutney.com/2004/05/06/hope-uncertain-and-unnamed/ One part facial hair. Two parts moxy. Thu, 22 Jul 2004 13:28:15 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=7.0 By: chutney http://www.makingchutney.com/2004/05/06/hope-uncertain-and-unnamed/comment-page-1/#comment-861 Thu, 22 Jul 2004 13:28:15 +0000 http://www.makingchutney.com/posts/2004/05/06/hope-uncertain-and-unnamed/#comment-861 s suffering is meaningless against the vast tapestry of the impartial and cold universe. </em> But I'm not relying upon secularism. I'm coming from Taoism, for instance. I guess I fail to see why "natural processes" aren't a ground of hope. To me, the workings of Tao are endlessly meaningful, and it perplexes me that others don't find them full enough. I'm not particularly interested in being resurrected myself, so that whole symbolism is lost on me. I also don't believe in <em>nihil</em> emptiness --- I'm much more partial to <em>sunyata</em> emptiness. So I suppose my point is that you have to swallow the whole Christian story for Moltmann's point about "uncertain and unnamed hope" to gel. I reject the Christian story, so it feels to me like he's just preaching to the choir.]]> Thom,

Good to hear from you. I ended up being able to come to the conference after all. Wish we could have got together.

There is nothing in secularism that can promise this kind of overturning. Everything is but a balance between this and that. One’s suffering is meaningless against the vast tapestry of the impartial and cold universe.

But I’m not relying upon secularism. I’m coming from Taoism, for instance. I guess I fail to see why “natural processes” aren’t a ground of hope. To me, the workings of Tao are endlessly meaningful, and it perplexes me that others don’t find them full enough.

I’m not particularly interested in being resurrected myself, so that whole symbolism is lost on me. I also don’t believe in nihil emptiness — I’m much more partial to sunyata emptiness.

So I suppose my point is that you have to swallow the whole Christian story for Moltmann’s point about “uncertain and unnamed hope” to gel. I reject the Christian story, so it feels to me like he’s just preaching to the choir.

]]> By: Thom http://www.makingchutney.com/2004/05/06/hope-uncertain-and-unnamed/comment-page-1/#comment-860 Thu, 22 Jul 2004 13:05:05 +0000 http://www.makingchutney.com/posts/2004/05/06/hope-uncertain-and-unnamed/#comment-860 I don’t think you understand exactly what he’s getting at. You are getting half the equation – the suffering of God which identifies and envelopes human suffering – but without the crucial element of the resurrection. Therefore, though God can sympathize and identify with human suffering, he cannot do anything about it. He cannot offer any victory or promise of victory, nor can he suggest any real solution. The resurrection is God’s Yes! to the No! of suffering and death, so that we who live in him will also reign with him. There is nothing in secularism that can promise this kind of overturning. Everything is but a balance between this and that. One’s suffering is meaningless against the vast tapestry of the impartial and cold universe. That is why Moltmann can say that those whose hope derives from the resurrection of Christ have a hope unlike any other. It is not dependent upon human beings, or the natural courses of the physical world, but upon the power of God who is able to resurrect the dead and to make living something from nihil nothingness.

]]> By: CP http://www.makingchutney.com/2004/05/06/hope-uncertain-and-unnamed/comment-page-1/#comment-730 Sat, 08 May 2004 03:20:00 +0000 http://www.makingchutney.com/posts/2004/05/06/hope-uncertain-and-unnamed/#comment-730 Hey. Good thoughts.

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